Thanks Baba. It's so hard to know how quickly/far to push it, but they know I've kept myself to myself for a long time now. The fact that they're willing to discuss things with me is something I feel need to take advantage of while I am around to do so. But yes, I will try to be gentle and questioning.
Atlantis - thanks for the 'What the Scholars Really Said' article. I hadn't come across it before. I need to read and see if I can get hold of printed proof in book form as this is the only way they'll read anything.
5go - I've already said to them what I think of the bible, and now wish I hadn't. Anyway, I'm not going to try to convince them they can't believe in Christianity, just that this isn't Christianity.
Salivating Dog - I guess you are joking. Anyway, using that type of comment wouldn't get anywhere with JW's, at least not the ones I know.
Thanks all.
Any specific ideas on easily provable doctrine see-sawing still gratefully accepted.
Eyes Open
JoinedPosts by Eyes Open
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24
Easily verifiable proofs please
by Eyes Open inthis is my first post here.
apologies i haven't introduced myself first, but i will do - just short of time right now.
in the meantime, please know i'm glad to have come to the knowledge i have and to have found sites like this one.
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Eyes Open
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24
How many of you are still affected by "Armageddon?"
by Soledad ini know i am, or at least now i'm finally willing to admit it.
when making future plans, i still have "jehovah's day" in the back of my mind.
i never caught myself doing that until fairly recently, and i just realized that it was holding me back in many ways.
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Eyes Open
This reply is actually a copy-and-paste job from the entertainment forum, but I'll say it here too as reading your comments makes me very sad that some of you still worry. If something bothers you, do all you can to educate yourself about the issue and hopefully your fear will lessen/go.
First, here's the generic prayer which I came across in "Leaving Jehovah's Witnesses", which is a very good document:
http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/xj.htm
I find that with greater understanding comes deeper satisfaction.
I find that gaps and dead ends in my understanding discomfort me.
I find that if I'm afraid, further seeking reveals misunderstanding.
I believe that it will always be thus.
This is my faith.
I desire to seek truth
Not for fear of loss
Not for want of gain
Not for need of words
And will endeavour to pursue it
No matter what it is
No matter who says it
No matter what I already believe.
This I affirm.
Here's my personal experience:
On an intellectual level I have no worries about what the society says; Armageddon itself creates the same level of fear in me as does being invaded by aliens (which I now actually consider more likely, come to think of it). However, I know there will be situations in life that test me, and that may take some time for me to conquer, due to those thought patterns ingrained from childhood. That's not because I'm fearful of being judged by Yahweh; that's because I'm worried about having the feelings of guilt.
I don't know what study you've done, but I'd like to recommend a book, particularly chapter four:
How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature - Why Modern Readers Need to Know the Difference, and What It Means for Faith Today by Steven L. McKenzie
I found it ultimately very liberating to read. It doesn't deal with Jehovah's Witnesses specifically (which only added to its power for me), but it does mention the movement that inspired their eschatology: the Millerites. It then goes on to take a few chapters from Daniel and Revelation and explain why they were written, and what they actually mean. I've since spent a lot of time studying Daniel and Revelation with a view to their social contexts, and taking the positive action to learn about them properly has meant that the idea of them having anything to do with our time in a literal way is now completely ludicrous to me. The interpretations in the relevant WT books are then seen as the contrived nonsense they are, and other bible doomsday prophets are seen to be the same.
The book doesn't decry all faith, but it does negate certain erroneous applications of literature. Can't recommend it enough, and it was certainly time well spent for me.
If you want recommendations on commentaries which deal with Daniel and Revelation specifically that I also found helpful, just say. -
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Why am I still fearful?!
by Maddie ini've really been trying to put it out of my mind because i don't want to have these fears, but they wont go away!!.
i really thought that my mind was free from the mind control of the borg but i don't think it can be completely.
ever since reading the postings about all the changes they are going to make i feel panicky and i think it is because they can still get to me.. i don't want to feel like this and i am fighting against it but i am finding it is getting to me.. does anyone else on jwd have any of these fears still?.
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Eyes Open
Hi Maddie and others,
Hope you're making progress and feeling less fear now.
On an intellectual level I have no worries about what the society says; Armageddon itself creates the same level of fear in me as does being invaded by aliens (which I now actually consider more likely, come to think of it). However, I know there will be situations in life that test me, and that may take some time for me to conquer, due to those thought patterns ingrained from childhood. That's not because I'm fearful of being judged by Yahweh; that's because I'm worried about having the feelings of guilt.
I don't know what study you've done, but I'd like to recommend a book, particularly chapter four:
How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature - Why Modern Readers Need to Know the Difference, and What It Means for Faith Today by Steven L. McKenzie
I found it ultimately very liberating to read. It doesn't deal with Jehovah's Witnesses specifically (which only added to its power for me), but it does mention the movement that inspired their eschatology: the Millerites. It then goes on to take a few chapters from Daniel and Revelation and explain why they were written, and what they actually mean. I've since spent a lot of time studying Daniel and Revelation with a view to their social contexts, and taking the positive action to learn about them properly has meant that the idea of them having anything to do with our time in a literal way is now completely ludicrous to me. The interpretations in the relevant WT books are then seen as the contrived nonsense they are, and other bible doomsday prophets are seen to be the same.
The book doesn't decry all faith, but it does negate certain erroneous applications of literature. Can't recommend it enough, and it was certainly time well spent for me.
If you want recommendations on commentaries which deal with Daniel and Revelation specifically that I also found helpful, just say. -
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Numb
by Eyes Open inhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=kxyiu_jcytu .
i'm tired of being what you want me to be .
feeling so faithless lost under the surface .
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Eyes Open
Whoops... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/106360/1.ashx Sorry. :)
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Numb
by Eyes Open inhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=kxyiu_jcytu .
i'm tired of being what you want me to be .
feeling so faithless lost under the surface .
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Eyes Open
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kXYiU_JCYtU
I'm tired of being what you want me to be
Feeling so faithless lost under the surface
Don't know what you're expecting of me
Put under the pressure of walking in your shoes
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you
Can't you see that you're smothering me
Holding too tightly afraid to lose control
Cause everything that you thought I would be
Has fallen apart right in front of you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
And every second I waste is more than I can take
[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you
And I know
I may end up failing too
But I know
You were just like me with someone disappointed in you
[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you
[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
I'm tired of being what you want me to be
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
I'm tired of being what you want me to be
I don't feel numb, and I hope I won't have to, but this song means a lot more to me now than it once did.
Love to all. -
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Easily verifiable proofs please
by Eyes Open inthis is my first post here.
apologies i haven't introduced myself first, but i will do - just short of time right now.
in the meantime, please know i'm glad to have come to the knowledge i have and to have found sites like this one.
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Eyes Open
Still up...
Thanks for the advice. I'm not economically dependent on them. I've been discussing quite a few things with my parents and want to show them they're being lied to. The two areas I've mentioned have come up in conversation so I have openings there.
Will it work? Probably not. But I'm going to try anyway. -
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Halloween Photos are In !!!!!!!
by Es inheya all,.
had an awesome time in brisbane celebrating halloween at movieworld.
here is an on line photo album of our night.
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Eyes Open
Nice pics. :)
Why don't Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate Halloween?
Because they don't like being disturbed at the door. -
24
Easily verifiable proofs please
by Eyes Open inthis is my first post here.
apologies i haven't introduced myself first, but i will do - just short of time right now.
in the meantime, please know i'm glad to have come to the knowledge i have and to have found sites like this one.
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Eyes Open
Thanks for the welcome, the compliment (I do?) and the heads up on Atlantis. We have the Kingdom Interlinear of the Greek, and I've been looking at page 1158 and trying to get to grips with what scholars like Dr. Mantey are saying.
I'm off to bed now and look forward to carrying on tomorrow. Cheers. -
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help !
by unfree inhi i'm18 and am a pb going to college.
i have not been inmeaninful contact with anyone my age for the last 2 years.
no prom for me.
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Eyes Open
Hi there unfree,
I can understand you not wanting to upset family and friends. However, always remember it is not you with the untrue beliefs.
I did things to please family and fit in, including getting baptised; I'm hoping to forgive myself for doing that one day. You're now officially an adult, and, even though it might be tough, taking the responsibility and deciding what you will do with your life is best done sooner rather than later. By all means do what you can to maintain relationships with family and friends; just never, ever compromise for them. If anyone decides not to continue being your friend because you don't choose to fall in line, that's their decision.
Regarding making new friends - it will happen. Just ease yourself into things and be yourself.
Thinking of ya. All the best. -
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Easily verifiable proofs please
by Eyes Open inthis is my first post here.
apologies i haven't introduced myself first, but i will do - just short of time right now.
in the meantime, please know i'm glad to have come to the knowledge i have and to have found sites like this one.
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Eyes Open
Hello all,
This is my first post here. Apologies I haven't introduced myself first, but I will do - just short of time right now. In the meantime, please know I'm glad to have come to the knowledge I have and to have found sites like this one.
I will shortly be presenting some concerns to my Witness parents (as in about a week from now), and two of the items are doctrine changes and NWT inaccuracies.
I've been finding doctrine changes aplenty on the net of course, often referring to old literature, but I need to give them things they can look up and see for themselves. I would very much appreciate your advice on what I can show them using the Watchtower Library CD, as well as "Then Is Finished The Mystery Of God" if that's of any help. I think my Grandma also has an Aid to Bible Understanding book we could borrow too.
Also, if you have suggestions on resources and scholarly books I can buy quickly to prove mistranslations in the NWT that would be great. I currently have Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament in my basket.
I'm not being lazy; it's just I need to do this as well as I can given the very limited time I have and know that a lot of you are far more familiar with JW theology and schenanigans, and their weaknesses. (My disbelief is due to learning about things which invalidate the bible as well as modern-day interpretations of apocalypse rather than convoluted JW doctrine.)
I'll probably only get one crack at this, and I love my family. Thanks very much.